Bloodiest Fight in the UFC

[Insanecowposse]

This guy is drowning im it and they never stopr the fight is pretty fucking brutal. skip to 4'23 in the vid to see massive blood.

[sTr]

blood is good...

[Grimlin]

I'm waiting for somebody to die.....Then they will cancel the UFC.....


I don't care for fighting much....

[Paullehh]

Grimlin Wrote:I'm waiting for somebody to die.....Then they will cancel the UFC.....


I don't care for fighting much....

I'm with you on that, all i think when watching that shit is.."fucking idiots"

[sTr]

numba, real wrestling is way better....

[Grimlin]

Paullehh Wrote:

Grimlin Wrote:I'm waiting for somebody to die.....Then they will cancel the UFC.....


I don't care for fighting much....

I'm with you on that, all i think when watching that shit is.."fucking idiots"

#cheers I agree.

My biggest problem is the dumb idiots who watch this then think they can do it too.

[sTr]

word, everyone here in AZ wants to be a cage fighter, ! think it's because we're close to Vegas...

[Paullehh]

At the risk of sounding like one of the "p.c brigade" i think they actually have it right on this one.
It does glorify fighting.
Not for your average intelligent person, if the world was full of those it would be no problem
But there really are idiots. fucking 10000s of em, who take away from this kind of thing the belief that fighting and beating some other dudes face is cool and makes you a big man..

[XIII]

aka: white trash and people of color.

[Clizownmothafackoz17]

That was fairly bloody. But there have been bloodier. See BJ Penn vs Joe Daddy Stevenson.
For all your squeamishness: MMA is a sport. Like any sport there are injuries. But compared to boxing and even many non-combat sports, MMA has a remarkable history of a fairly remarkable ABSENCE of serious injury and fatalities. No one has ever died in the UFC. People die in boxing all the time. MMA has a higher standard of fighter protection than other combat sports.
Not all fighters are idiots. Look at the best fighter in the history of the sport: Fedor Emelianenko. The man is humble, dedicated, kind and a statesman for his country. The same is true of Anderson Silva. Mirko “Cro-Cop” Filopovic who unfortunately apparently just retired, is a member of parliament in Croatia. Shane Carwin and Keith Jardine can be described certainly as highly intelligent if not as intellectuals. Rich Franklin holds a master's degree and taught highschool. This is just to name a few. It has been said in fact that as a whole, MMA fighters are perhaps the most educated group of athletes in existence.
Instead, you look at Kimbo and think that MMA fighters are street brawlers. There is a huge gap between a street brawler and a mixed martial artist. Thus Kimbo, the great legend of youtube, is instantaneously KO’d by a sub par and under-sized MMAist in Seth Petruzelli.
In order to effectively compete in MMA and to achieve any level of success you have to dedicate yourself to a continuous study of the scientific principles of unarmed combat. You have to push yourself to the physical limits of the human body. You have to listen to your coaches and respect your sparring partners. The best fighters, therefore, almost without fail, are the most humble, most dedicated and most thoughtful men and women in the sport.

[Enigma]

now i remember...Clizown, you were someone i liked before...when i first read your name i couldn't remember you for sure and i was sure you'd be some uneducated douche...but after reading that post i realize you've always been fairly intelligent with your postings. that makes me super happy. :)


-off subject

-on subject

i've never been much into cage fighting or UFC....just not my kinda thing.

[Clizownmothafackoz17]

Enigma Wrote:now i remember...Clizown, you were someone i liked before...when i first read your name i couldn't remember you for sure and i was sure you'd be some uneducated douche...but after reading that post i realize you've always been fairly intelligent with your postings. that makes me super happy. :)

-off subject

-on subject

i've never been much into cage fighting or UFC....just not my kinda thing.

Thanks, boss, I always liked you too.

[Grimlin]

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:That was fairly bloody. But there have been bloodier. See BJ Penn vs Joe Daddy Stevenson.
For all your squeamishness: MMA is a sport. Like any sport there are injuries. But compared to boxing and even many non-combat sports, MMA has a remarkable history of a fairly remarkable ABSENCE of serious injury and fatalities. No one has ever died in the UFC. People die in boxing all the time. MMA has a higher standard of fighter protection than other combat sports.
Not all fighters are idiots. Look at the best fighter in the history of the sport: Fedor Emelianenko. The man is humble, dedicated, kind and a statesman for his country. The same is true of Anderson Silva. Mirko “Cro-Cop” Filopovic who unfortunately apparently just retired, is a member of parliament in Croatia. Shane Carwin and Keith Jardine can be described certainly as highly intelligent if not as intellectuals. Rich Franklin holds a master's degree and taught highschool. This is just to name a few. It has been said in fact that as a whole, MMA fighters are perhaps the most educated group of athletes in existence.
Instead, you look at Kimbo and think that MMA fighters are street brawlers. There is a huge gap between a street brawler and a mixed martial artist. Thus Kimbo, the great legend of youtube, is instantaneously KO’d by a sub par and under-sized MMAist in Seth Petruzelli.
In order to effectively compete in MMA and to achieve any level of success you have to dedicate yourself to a continuous study of the scientific principles of unarmed combat. You have to push yourself to the physical limits of the human body. You have to listen to your coaches and respect your sparring partners. The best fighters, therefore, almost without fail, are the most humble, most dedicated and most thoughtful men and women in the sport.

Fighting is not a sport...period. It should be use for self defense purposes....isn't that what it was created for?
It's the million of people who glorify fighting and blood that keeps these guys in national spotlight.Fighting should never be the thing people "want" to see.

It just goes to show how sick people are to watch somebody else get hurt or beaten.It's not a proud thing to want to kick somebody else ass just for the hell of it(guess you could say getting paid too).

[Enigma]

*big grin* it's always nice to be liked. :) :) :)



i honestly have this big sheepish grin on my face. hahaha!


*hangs head* i'm such a dweeb.

how's things?

[Insanecowposse]

Fighting has been a sport before pretty much any sport. There has always been fighting tournaments and many of your favorite stars were in them. Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Jet Li they were all in fighting tournaments. They have a great ability to fight and people have always wondered whihch style of fighting was the best and who was the best fighter this is a way to find out. Karate, Kung fu etc is not only about self defense but discipline. Before Ufc there were many many cage matches and pancreas tournaments in places like Japan, Germany, Brazil. I think its great actually because if you give these naturally violent people a place where they can legally take out their aggressions in a legal and controlled environment where they can make money then maybe just maybe these people won't go on to be robbers thugs gangsters etc because now they have another option. Statistically there are more serious injuries in Football, Boxing, Hockey, Baseball and probably Rugby and soccer. The guy needed stitches in his forehead and thats about it. For the record the guy who got beat down has a degree in advanced business or somthing to that effect and the other guy delivering the beat down was a math teacher. They are not all idiots they a tough and great fighters and willing too prove it in the ring. Its not about being cool its about making money and being the best at what you do.

[Clizownmothafackoz17]

Enigma Wrote:*big grin* it's always nice to be liked.
i honestly have this big sheepish grin on my face. hahaha!
*hangs head* i'm such a dweeb.
how's things?

It's a mixed bag of course, but all in all I'm well, thank you. How are you these days?

Grimlin Wrote:Fighting is not a sport...period.

And strictly speaking MMA isn't fighting per se. It is a combat sport, but it is strictly confined within a rule-set in the interests of safety and fairness. In real fighting there is no ban on guns, no weight classes, no promise that it will be one on one, no ban on eye-gouging, biting and so forth and no referee to pull someone off of you when the fight is no longer in contest. With the addition of these rules, we move from actual combat (fighting as you say) to a sporting event. As in any sporting event, it will not do to be nice to our opponent while competing (though, in general, MMA has perhaps the best comradery and sportsmanship of any modern sport). But the object of MMA is not necessarily to "Kick his ass." The object is to win based on the criteria for victory imposed by the sport. This could come via a knockout, or a fighter could be made to tap with a submission before he is hurt in any way, or a fighter could lose based on being outworked/outwrestled/outboxed etc. Depends on the matchup and the strategy and upon who is the better athlete and martial artist.

Grimlin Wrote:It just goes to show how sick people are to watch somebody else get hurt or beaten.It's not a proud thing to want to kick somebody else ass just for the hell of it(guess you could say getting paid too).

I'm not a violent person by nature and I certainly don't enjoy hurting people or seeing people get hurt. Human suffering makes my skin crawl. But I do like to spar, to box, to train. And I love to watch the best fighters in the world compete. And I think, with few exceptions, people aren't watching in the hopes of someone actually getting hurt. People watch MMA because it is the most open expression of combat sport, allowing techniques ranging from boxing to wrestling to jiu jitsu. People watch MMA because it is exciting to see elite level athletes compete in a fair physical contest of skill, strength and intelligence.

[Grimlin]

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:I'm not a violent person by nature and I certainly don't enjoy hurting people or seeing people get hurt. Human suffering makes my skin crawl. But I do like to spar, to box, to train. And I love to watch the best fighters in the world compete. And I think, with few exceptions, people aren't watching in the hopes of someone actually getting hurt. People watch MMA because it is the most open expression of combat sport, allowing techniques ranging from boxing to wrestling to jiu jitsu. People watch MMA because it is exciting to see elite level athletes compete in a fair physical contest of skill, strength and intelligence.

You may be talking about 5%-10% of people that watch MMA actually understand that.

A lot of people i talk to have nowhere near the intelligent understanding of that.

I just can't come to term it's a sport....Combat yes,Sport no.That's just me though...


I get what you are saying.

[Paullehh]

Wow you guys completely missed the point.
Read back again.
The point was not that the fighters are idiots, it was that there are too many idiots watching it and it glorifies fighting for them...

The world would be a better place without this shit.

[Clizownmothafackoz17]

Paullehh Wrote:Wow you guys completely missed the point.
Read back again.
The point was not that the fighters are idiots, it was that there are too many idiots watching it and it glorifies fighting for them...
The world would be a better place without this shit.

And many people are watching boxing where fighting is glorified. And many people are watching movies where fighting is glorified. And people are listening to music where fighting is glorified. And many people are watching GI Joe where fighting is glorified. And many people are reading books where fighting is glorified. And many people are playing video games where fighting is glorified. And people are watching hockey where fighting is glorified. And people are watching middleschool football and wrestling where fighting is ritualized and simulated and glorified.
So it seems that not only the UFC, and not only Mixed Martial Arts, but entertainment of virtually all kinds must be abolished in order to cure our fetish for fighting.
But in the final analysis this too proves completely inadequate, and in fact all of this is of minimal importance on the grand social scale. Because all of these past instances are more or less simulated/controlled/fake/ritualized fighting. Consider this: People all around the world are watching wars on TV where [REAL] fighting is glorified by their governments. Consider that the world exists under an economic system where dog-eat-dog fighting in the market is the ideal for personal success and the basis of the rags-to-riches American dream. If you're so concerned about the fake fighting, your best change of eliminating its glorification would be to eliminate the economic and social system that is dependent on the real fighting. I can't promise you that it will work, because I believe that there will be a place for athletic competition even in a peaceful and just world. But I can promise you that banning a book, or a CD, or a movie, or a sport will not end or even reduce violence in a world system dependent on violence.

[sTr]

! don't think many people were watching GI Joe....

[Paullehh]

I don't think you can compare the effects of UFC to that of video games and movies...that's just stupidity.
Boxing yes, it falls under the same shit but it's not as full on glorifying violence to the masses of morons as UFC.
Most people don't link it so much to street brawling.

It may not cure the problem to Ban things like UFC but it would certainly help.

[Clizownmothafackoz17]

The bottom line is that a society that glorifies fighting and ruthless competition in its entertainment emerges from an economic system dependent on fighting and ruthless competition in real life. Not vice-versa.

[Paullehh]

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:The bottom line is that a society that glorifies fighting and ruthless competition in its entertainment emerges from an economic system dependent on fighting and ruthless competition in real life. Not vice-versa.

Violent sports are not a side product of a competitive economy...
The sports have no impact on the way countries do business, and glorified violence in any entertainment form does not improve your ability to compete and get ahead in life or business.
The two are not linked nor dependent on eachother.

[sTr]

again, real wrestling is better...

[Insanecowposse]

Paul i usually aggree with you on stuff but damn you are dead wrong on this. There are million and million if not a couple billion people that watch some sort of MMA. There are thousands that do it or think they can do it. The idiots who watch it and think yeah I could that aren't really hurting anyone are they? I mean seriously you said thw WORLD would be a better place without a controlled mixed martial art tournament being televised on tv? Why cus you are annoyed when someone THINKS they can do it? How is that hurting you or anyone else? Sounds like an uneducated rant to me.

[Paullehh]

It desensitizes idiots to violence, and even makes it enjoyable for them..

[Insanecowposse]

You actually have a point there. If they see it glorified and glamourized on tv and those guys are promoted as heroes and studs then when they beat the shit out of someone they feel like a hero or a stud instead of guilty like they should feel.

[Clizownmothafackoz17]

Paullehh Wrote:Violent sports are not a side product of a competitive economy...
The sports have no impact on the way countries do business, and glorified violence in any entertainment form does not improve your ability to compete and get ahead in life or business.
The two are not linked nor dependent on eachother.

But of course there is a link. The economic mode of production and the individual's relation to the means of production determines the common values of the day. Ideals such as competitiveness, aggression and the glorification of fighting are imposed by capitalism. They are so strongly imposed that people come to think of them as human nature. But this is false. Capitalism is dependent on competition and on violence, thus they are engrained in society. In hunter-gatherer societies which still exist, the survival of the group is dependent on egalitarianism, upon cooperation, upon peacefulness amongst the group. In these societies these characteristics (the very opposite of those imposed by capitalism) are presumed by the members of the group to be human nature. But they are not, they have a very specific, underlying material cause. In this case you have come to think of these "corrupt" values (ie kids wanting to engage in street brawls) as being a product of a random phenomenon--the popular rise of the UFC. You mistake a symptom for the underlying condition.

In capitalism how do you "get ahead?" Well generally by being born rich, but what is the common conception of how you get ahead? Through competition, through beating out the classmates around you, then the workers around you, and, should you be rich, by beating out the capitalists around you.

Capitalism is dependent on competition, thus competition is glorified. Capitalism is dependent on violence. Thus violence is glorified. Under capitalism you have a society that exists in a state of fighting--of real fighting--not for a championship belt, (which in comparison is an utterly benign form of fighting) but for who rules society. Who is rich, who is poor, who is free, who is not, who eats, who starves. This fighting is much more real and much more violent than any sporting event. This fighting at the level of the working class has a dual character, as does the consciousness of the worker. On one hand (due to the consciousness imposed on him from above) he fights against his fellow worker for promotions, for hours, for better wages--he fights to keep his job while others are laid off. He fights wars as directed by the capitalist class. He fights against workers of other races. On the other hand (due to the consciousness arising out of the reality of his material conditions) he fights against the ruling class, or at least resents them for their unelected rulership over him and he fights for power over his own life. As for the rich, they fight (on one hand) to keep workers exploited and to prevent them from becoming united and (on the other) they fight amongst themselves over the domination of political society.

To summarize: In every class society resulting from a given mode of production, be it feudalism, slavery, primitive capitalism, advanced capitalist imperialism, etc, the ruling class has a means of imposing ideology on the common people, and the ideals that are necessary to maintain the system and the rulership of that class (so long as the system is effectively running) are to be the dominant ideology of the day. Capitalism is dependent on aggression, violence, racism, sexism, homophobia to name a few. It is also dependent on the ideas that allow the working class to be constantly fighting wars in its interests. And all of these are to be found in the minds of the common people. It isn't human nature. And it isn't coincidence.

[Paullehh]

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:

Paullehh Wrote:Violent sports are not a side product of a competitive economy...
The sports have no impact on the way countries do business, and glorified violence in any entertainment form does not improve your ability to compete and get ahead in life or business.
The two are not linked nor dependent on eachother.

But of course there is a link. The economic mode of production and the individual's relation to the means of production determines the common values of the day. Ideals such as competitiveness, aggression and the glorification of fighting are imposed by capitalism. They are so strongly imposed that people come to think of them as human nature. But this is false. Capitalism is dependent on competition and on violence, thus they are engrained in society. In hunter-gatherer societies which still exist, the survival of the group is dependent on egalitarianism, upon cooperation, upon peacefulness amongst the group. In these societies these characteristics (the very opposite of those imposed by capitalism) are presumed by the members of the group to be human nature. But they are not, they have a very specific, underlying material cause. In this case you have come to think of these "corrupt" values (ie kids wanting to engage in street brawls) as being a product of a random phenomenon--the popular rise of the UFC. You mistake a symptom for the underlying condition.

In capitalism how do you "get ahead?" Well generally by being born rich, but what is the common conception of how you get ahead? Through competition, through beating out the classmates around you, then the workers around you, and, should you be rich, by beating out the capitalists around you.

Capitalism is dependent on competition, thus competition is glorified. Capitalism is dependent on violence. Thus violence is glorified. Under capitalism you have a society that exists in a state of fighting--of real fighting--not for a championship belt, (which in comparison is an utterly benign form of fighting) but for who rules society. Who is rich, who is poor, who is free, who is not, who eats, who starves. This fighting is much more real and much more violent than any sporting event. This fighting at the level of the working class has a dual character, as does the consciousness of the worker. On one hand (due to the consciousness imposed on him from above) he fights against his fellow worker for promotions, for hours, for better wages--he fights to keep his job while others are laid off. He fights wars as directed by the capitalist class. He fights against workers of other races. On the other hand (due to the consciousness arising out of the reality of his material conditions) he fights against the ruling class, or at least resents them for their unelected rulership over him and he fights for power over his own life. As for the rich, they fight (on one hand) to keep workers exploited and to prevent them from becoming united and (on the other) they fight amongst themselves over the domination of political society.

To summarize: In every class society resulting from a given mode of production, be it feudalism, slavery, primitive capitalism, advanced capitalist imperialism, etc, the ruling class has a means of imposing ideology on the common people, and the ideals that are necessary to maintain the system and the rulership of that class (so long as the system is effectively running) are to be the dominant ideology of the day. Capitalism is dependent on aggression, violence, racism, sexism, homophobia to name a few. It is also dependent on the ideas that allow the working class to be constantly fighting wars in its interests. And all of these are to be found in the minds of the common people. It isn't human nature. And it isn't coincidence.

To long and badly written, so i skimmed it.
You are basing the whole thing on a analogy and it has no relevance to this discussion.
You can link almost any two things by doing that.
My point stands that the sport desensitizes morons to violence.
I never claimed it was entirely to blame for immoral and bad behavior as is assumed in your argument.
It certainly adds to the problem though.

[Clizownmothafackoz17]

Paullehh Wrote:To long

Yeah about two paragraphs is about my limit too.

Quote:and badly written

A hell of an assumption since you didn't read it per se.

Quote:
You are basing the whole thing on a analogy and it has no relevance to this discussion.

There is no analogy in there. Not even in the parts you didn't read.

Quote:You can link almost any two things by doing that.

No. You can link social structure with social phenomena by doing what I did. That link is undeniable and obvious to any thinking person.

Quote:My point stands that the sport desensitizes morons to violence.

I hope that you are aware that this same tired argument of yours has been and still is used to attack the freedom of speech. Your argument is used to ban books and films, to put parental warnings on CD's and video games, to stifle creativity and to make the world more and more "moronic" under the pretense that the products being banned are the thing that are desensitizing the children to violence.
I really wanna know how you thinks this works. Before they were exposed to the UFC, do you presume that this class of "morons" was "sensitized" to violence? Were they souls of gentle disposition transformed into street brawlers overnight? I have already demonstrated that the UFC is hardly the first glorification of violence they have seen.
The UFC did not create the phenomenon of street brawls, which are as old a practice as is the existence of modern streets. At the very worst, the UFC inspires "morons" already of the disposition to engage in street brawls to attempt to imitate their favorite fighter while doing so. And since, this group of morons almost certainly lacks the intelligence and discipline to train under professional trainers for years, these morons are entirely incapable of imitating those fighters in any substantive way.

[Insanecowposse]

Heres a way to settle your arguement or at least put a little research into it. Has there been an increase in violent crimes and or the severity of the violence as it relates to MMA meaning that shooting, knife fights or any other fighting with weapons would not be included. Statistically do you think that more people are actually going out there and beating the crap out of people with their bare hands because they saw something on tv. I highly doubt it and they do say the same thing about movies desensitizing people like in the case where those teenagers imitated the scene where those kids got ran over by a train and ended up dead. ALso there was an ozzy osbourne song that supposedly backwards told a kid to kill himself and that made it to court. I think that the people that are bullies idiots morons etc that are desensitized to violence have an outlet with MMA. Now they can go in the gym and fight someone that can fight back and has training in a controlled environment whereas before they would take that rage out on someone else. Idle hands are the tools of the devil so keep the idiots busy and wear them out with rigorous physical training.

[Paullehh]

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:

Paullehh Wrote:To long

Yeah about two paragraphs is about my limit too.

Quote:and badly written

A hell of an assumption since you didn't read it per se.

It was badly written as it was hard to follow, in the way that it was like trying to get into the mindset of a paranoid schizophrenic .

Quote: There is no analogy in there. Not even in the parts you didn't read.

The analogy is, UFC is fight and struggle, and that life can be said to be a fight and a struggle therefor UFC is like life.

Quote:My point stands that the sport desensitizes morons to violence.

Quote: I hope that you are aware that this same tired argument of yours has been and still is used to attack the freedom of speech. Your argument is used to ban books and films, to put parental warnings on CD's and video games, to stifle creativity and to make the world more and more "moronic" under the pretense that the products being banned are the thing that are desensitizing the children to violence.
I really wanna know how you thinks this works. Before they were exposed to the UFC, do you presume that this class of "morons" was "sensitized" to violence? Were they souls of gentle disposition transformed into street brawlers overnight? I have already demonstrated that the UFC is hardly the first glorification of violence they have seen.
The UFC did not create the phenomenon of street brawls, which are as old a practice as is the existence of modern streets. At the very worst, the UFC inspires "morons" already of the disposition to engage in street brawls to attempt to imitate their favorite fighter while doing so. And since, this group of morons almost certainly lacks the intelligence and discipline to train under professional trainers for years, these morons are entirely incapable of imitating those fighters in any substantive way.

As i said in a previous post, i think this is a single case where they may have got it correct.
There is a clear undeniable difference between fantasy and reality in these things.
Example: If you watch horror movies constantly where brutal murders are depicted and then see a real life snuff video you will still have a shock impact from watching the snuff video.
If you watch snuff videos over and over again then you become desensitized to it and it no longer moves you.
Same can be said for fighting.
The problem here is that the violence in the UFC moves further away from fantasy and more toward reality of fighting, and people inevitably become desensitized to such scenes of real violence.
This is something the PC brigade claim is replicated in fantasy violence such as books and TV etc but i disagree.

[Autumn]

(I didn't read through most of the posts, just a few. So, pardon me if I've become off topic.)
I don't like UFC or Pride, either. My boyfriend, brother, and Uncle are all really into it though. Grim, do you consider boxing a sport? What about wrestling? Martial arts? I do believe MMA IS a sport. And, I didn't watch the video, either. Is it the one from the Ultimate Fighter, where the guy takes an elbow so hard within the gash you could ACTUALLY see his skull? *shudders* Icky.

[dirtymonkey22]

how can anyone say UFC or any other type of fighting isnt a sport,hell if anything its the one of the oldest sports.
People have been watching people fight for as long as people have recorded history and even more so .
the only problem is we do have stupid people watching but thats with anything look at how hard these fighters train and how much work goes into getting ready for it they have had guys from all diffrent sports in great shape who drop to there knees just from being tierd,these are football players pro wrestlers boxers ............

[Grimlin]

Autumn Wrote:(I didn't read through most of the posts, just a few. So, pardon me if I've become off topic.)
I don't like UFC or Pride, either. My boyfriend, brother, and Uncle are all really into it though. Grim, do you consider boxing a sport? What about wrestling? Martial arts? I do believe MMA IS a sport. And, I didn't watch the video, either. Is it the one from the Ultimate Fighter, where the guy takes an elbow so hard within the gash you could ACTUALLY see his skull? *shudders* Icky.

Not sports. Defense and combat fighting used for self defense.

My best friend down in TX,his cousin was a professional boxer.His cousin was also a dumbass who needed money so he decided to rob this 7-11 store.He told the clerk This is a stick up and the clerk basically laughed at him.He punch the clerk ONE TIME and killed him.Made off with like $300

2 days later the cops figured out who he was and arrested him....he's now serving 50 years behind bars for the murder of that clerk.Because he was a professional boxer his hands were considered lethal weapons and he got a high prison term.