Grimlin Wrote:I'm waiting for somebody to die.....Then they will cancel the UFC.....


I don't care for fighting much....

Paullehh Wrote:

Grimlin Wrote:I'm waiting for somebody to die.....Then they will cancel the UFC.....


I don't care for fighting much....

I'm with you on that, all i think when watching that shit is.."fucking idiots"

Enigma Wrote:now i remember...Clizown, you were someone i liked before...when i first read your name i couldn't remember you for sure and i was sure you'd be some uneducated douche...but after reading that post i realize you've always been fairly intelligent with your postings. that makes me super happy. :)

-off subject

-on subject

i've never been much into cage fighting or UFC....just not my kinda thing.

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:That was fairly bloody. But there have been bloodier. See BJ Penn vs Joe Daddy Stevenson.
For all your squeamishness: MMA is a sport. Like any sport there are injuries. But compared to boxing and even many non-combat sports, MMA has a remarkable history of a fairly remarkable ABSENCE of serious injury and fatalities. No one has ever died in the UFC. People die in boxing all the time. MMA has a higher standard of fighter protection than other combat sports.
Not all fighters are idiots. Look at the best fighter in the history of the sport: Fedor Emelianenko. The man is humble, dedicated, kind and a statesman for his country. The same is true of Anderson Silva. Mirko “Cro-Cop” Filopovic who unfortunately apparently just retired, is a member of parliament in Croatia. Shane Carwin and Keith Jardine can be described certainly as highly intelligent if not as intellectuals. Rich Franklin holds a master's degree and taught highschool. This is just to name a few. It has been said in fact that as a whole, MMA fighters are perhaps the most educated group of athletes in existence.
Instead, you look at Kimbo and think that MMA fighters are street brawlers. There is a huge gap between a street brawler and a mixed martial artist. Thus Kimbo, the great legend of youtube, is instantaneously KO’d by a sub par and under-sized MMAist in Seth Petruzelli.
In order to effectively compete in MMA and to achieve any level of success you have to dedicate yourself to a continuous study of the scientific principles of unarmed combat. You have to push yourself to the physical limits of the human body. You have to listen to your coaches and respect your sparring partners. The best fighters, therefore, almost without fail, are the most humble, most dedicated and most thoughtful men and women in the sport.

Enigma Wrote:*big grin* it's always nice to be liked.
i honestly have this big sheepish grin on my face. hahaha!
*hangs head* i'm such a dweeb.
how's things?

Grimlin Wrote:Fighting is not a sport...period.

Grimlin Wrote:It just goes to show how sick people are to watch somebody else get hurt or beaten.It's not a proud thing to want to kick somebody else ass just for the hell of it(guess you could say getting paid too).

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:I'm not a violent person by nature and I certainly don't enjoy hurting people or seeing people get hurt. Human suffering makes my skin crawl. But I do like to spar, to box, to train. And I love to watch the best fighters in the world compete. And I think, with few exceptions, people aren't watching in the hopes of someone actually getting hurt. People watch MMA because it is the most open expression of combat sport, allowing techniques ranging from boxing to wrestling to jiu jitsu. People watch MMA because it is exciting to see elite level athletes compete in a fair physical contest of skill, strength and intelligence.

Paullehh Wrote:Wow you guys completely missed the point.
Read back again.
The point was not that the fighters are idiots, it was that there are too many idiots watching it and it glorifies fighting for them...
The world would be a better place without this shit.

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:The bottom line is that a society that glorifies fighting and ruthless competition in its entertainment emerges from an economic system dependent on fighting and ruthless competition in real life. Not vice-versa.

Paullehh Wrote:Violent sports are not a side product of a competitive economy...
The sports have no impact on the way countries do business, and glorified violence in any entertainment form does not improve your ability to compete and get ahead in life or business.
The two are not linked nor dependent on eachother.

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:

Paullehh Wrote:Violent sports are not a side product of a competitive economy...
The sports have no impact on the way countries do business, and glorified violence in any entertainment form does not improve your ability to compete and get ahead in life or business.
The two are not linked nor dependent on eachother.

But of course there is a link. The economic mode of production and the individual's relation to the means of production determines the common values of the day. Ideals such as competitiveness, aggression and the glorification of fighting are imposed by capitalism. They are so strongly imposed that people come to think of them as human nature. But this is false. Capitalism is dependent on competition and on violence, thus they are engrained in society. In hunter-gatherer societies which still exist, the survival of the group is dependent on egalitarianism, upon cooperation, upon peacefulness amongst the group. In these societies these characteristics (the very opposite of those imposed by capitalism) are presumed by the members of the group to be human nature. But they are not, they have a very specific, underlying material cause. In this case you have come to think of these "corrupt" values (ie kids wanting to engage in street brawls) as being a product of a random phenomenon--the popular rise of the UFC. You mistake a symptom for the underlying condition.

In capitalism how do you "get ahead?" Well generally by being born rich, but what is the common conception of how you get ahead? Through competition, through beating out the classmates around you, then the workers around you, and, should you be rich, by beating out the capitalists around you.

Capitalism is dependent on competition, thus competition is glorified. Capitalism is dependent on violence. Thus violence is glorified. Under capitalism you have a society that exists in a state of fighting--of real fighting--not for a championship belt, (which in comparison is an utterly benign form of fighting) but for who rules society. Who is rich, who is poor, who is free, who is not, who eats, who starves. This fighting is much more real and much more violent than any sporting event. This fighting at the level of the working class has a dual character, as does the consciousness of the worker. On one hand (due to the consciousness imposed on him from above) he fights against his fellow worker for promotions, for hours, for better wages--he fights to keep his job while others are laid off. He fights wars as directed by the capitalist class. He fights against workers of other races. On the other hand (due to the consciousness arising out of the reality of his material conditions) he fights against the ruling class, or at least resents them for their unelected rulership over him and he fights for power over his own life. As for the rich, they fight (on one hand) to keep workers exploited and to prevent them from becoming united and (on the other) they fight amongst themselves over the domination of political society.

To summarize: In every class society resulting from a given mode of production, be it feudalism, slavery, primitive capitalism, advanced capitalist imperialism, etc, the ruling class has a means of imposing ideology on the common people, and the ideals that are necessary to maintain the system and the rulership of that class (so long as the system is effectively running) are to be the dominant ideology of the day. Capitalism is dependent on aggression, violence, racism, sexism, homophobia to name a few. It is also dependent on the ideas that allow the working class to be constantly fighting wars in its interests. And all of these are to be found in the minds of the common people. It isn't human nature. And it isn't coincidence.

Paullehh Wrote:To long

Quote:and badly written

Quote:
You are basing the whole thing on a analogy and it has no relevance to this discussion.

Quote:You can link almost any two things by doing that.

Quote:My point stands that the sport desensitizes morons to violence.

Clizownmothafackoz17 Wrote:

Paullehh Wrote:To long

Yeah about two paragraphs is about my limit too.

Quote:and badly written

A hell of an assumption since you didn't read it per se.

Quote: There is no analogy in there. Not even in the parts you didn't read.

Quote:My point stands that the sport desensitizes morons to violence.

Quote: I hope that you are aware that this same tired argument of yours has been and still is used to attack the freedom of speech. Your argument is used to ban books and films, to put parental warnings on CD's and video games, to stifle creativity and to make the world more and more "moronic" under the pretense that the products being banned are the thing that are desensitizing the children to violence.
I really wanna know how you thinks this works. Before they were exposed to the UFC, do you presume that this class of "morons" was "sensitized" to violence? Were they souls of gentle disposition transformed into street brawlers overnight? I have already demonstrated that the UFC is hardly the first glorification of violence they have seen.
The UFC did not create the phenomenon of street brawls, which are as old a practice as is the existence of modern streets. At the very worst, the UFC inspires "morons" already of the disposition to engage in street brawls to attempt to imitate their favorite fighter while doing so. And since, this group of morons almost certainly lacks the intelligence and discipline to train under professional trainers for years, these morons are entirely incapable of imitating those fighters in any substantive way.

Autumn Wrote:(I didn't read through most of the posts, just a few. So, pardon me if I've become off topic.)
I don't like UFC or Pride, either. My boyfriend, brother, and Uncle are all really into it though. Grim, do you consider boxing a sport? What about wrestling? Martial arts? I do believe MMA IS a sport. And, I didn't watch the video, either. Is it the one from the Ultimate Fighter, where the guy takes an elbow so hard within the gash you could ACTUALLY see his skull? *shudders* Icky.